it shall be here nightly. >> that really makes me feel good. >> larry: the cast of "saturday night live" is here tomorrow night -- >> where? >> larry: in new york. >> that was my gag, he's always telling you about some other show. tomorrow night. >> larry: time now for "ac 360." thanks, larry, thanks for watching. tonight the man of god who preaches against homosexuality now accused by three young male followers into coercing them into doing precisely what he preached against. shocking allegations and they are just that, allegations. what the pastor has to say in his defense, our guest ted haggard once himself the center at scandal. and the gop's pledge to america, cutting taxes, cutting spending, repealing health care reform. do the numbers add up? do the simple facts support the promises? we're keeping them honest. and later, imagine a loved one is ill and no one can treat them, let alone figure out what is wrong. where would you turn? we're going to bring you have

the final installment of dr. sanjay gupta's look at the disease detectives and how -- and show you how two of their toughest cases including a little girl named kylie have turned out. tonight the sexual abuse allegations against one of most influential ministers in the country. bishop eddie long of the new birth missionary baptist church outside atlanta. three men are suing bishop long accusing him of enticing them with cars, clothes, expensive jewelry in exchange for sexual favors. these are just allegations at this point but what makes them so startling is bishop long is leader of a mega church with 25,000 members but a major opponent of same-sex marriage and homosexuality. here's some of what he's preached in the past about gays and lesbians. >> and the problem today and the reason why society is like it is is because men are being feminized and women are becoming masculine. >> and everybody knows it's dangerous to enter an exit. you cannot say i was born this way. i don't care what scientists

say. you can be converted. you were not born that way. let me pray with you. let me tell you, don't you be conformed to this world but be transformed, i don't know what i am. take your clothes down and i'll show you who you are. >> that's video from the southern poverty law center. these are photographs provided by the lawyer involved in this lawsuit, maurice robinson and anth an flag, who filed lawsuit. a third man, not shown here, has also filed suit. these men were reportedly referred to by bishop long as spiritual sons. according to the flagg and robinson lawsuit, the they were 17 and 18 years old at the time. anth an flagg had to share with the bishop. this is what his lawyer says happened.

>> on that 18th birthday, bishop long engaged in oral sodomy with this young man. >> bishop long's third accuser said he would discuss holy scripture to justify and support the activity. bishop long denies all of the allegations. these photos of bishop long in tight gym clothes which appear to have been taken by the bishop himself were reportedly sent to another so-called spiritual son and released by the attorney involved in the lawsuit who you saw moments ago. bishop long's lawyer says the photos do not corroborate the charges and in a radio interview the attorney says he's a health advocate and weight lifter. he wears muscle shirts. earlier i spoke about the allegations with two ministers with deep experience in the intersection of religion, sexuality and in the case of one of the ministers, sexual scan dal. this summer ted haggard launched a smaller church with his wife,

gail, author of "why i stayed." i also spoke with pastor troy sanders a minister in 2008 part of a delegation soul force which met with bishop long. pastor ted, obviously, bishop long should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. but does it seem explainable to you that he would send out pictures of himself in skin tight outfits to young men in his congregation? >> we know the pictures are there. we're not sure where they came from. but there was a movement several years ago where people were concerned about the direction of the church. and there was kind affa masculine movement. that doesn't mean he's guilty. >> professor troy, how closely do you follow what bishop long's church is doing? i read the law center called eddie long, quote, one of the most homophobic black leaders in

the anti-gay movement. is that an accurate description? >> i think there are a number of church leaders that come down rather hard on the lgbt community. i was part of the soul force american family outing that took lesbian and gay family members into new birth. >> you met with bishop long back in 2008. >> yes. >> what was your impression? >> the first impression i had was he was very hospitable to us but it was very clear there was a difference in theology. there was a very clear difference between what we believed and the oppressive theology that the church is known for. >> pastor ted, do you -- has there been a -- do you think this pastor was particularly homophobic? >> well, the times i met him i didn't get that indication. but i do think it's important that churches be able to embrace the type of theology that they believe in and be able to communicate it with clarity. when a church embraces a certain theological slant, people join

with that, that's why we have freedom of religion. >> pastor troy? >> anderson, with all due respect, i agree we have the right to believe what we believe but it is absolutely hypocritical if you're going to stand in any pulpit across this country and preach against homosexuality when you have homosexual tendencies. the gospel of jesus christ hinges on truth. any message, i'm a preacher and a same-gender loving man and it makes it a requirement. i cannot preach the gospel of jesus christ and not walk in truth around my sexuality. cannot do it. >> pastor ted, what about that? you weren't one of the leading figures among evangelicals that preach anti-gay rhetoric but you made comments about it being a sin, you campaign in support of the defensive marriage act saying it would be devastating for the children of our nation and western civilization. did you feel like a hypocrite? >> i think every bible teacher struggles with some issues in the scripture. we're responsible to teach the bible.

we teach, pray continually, but every one of our are growing in our prayer lives. we haven't achieved that. we teach sexual fidelity in marriage and the bible teaches that, we encourage people in that, but there are some times when adultery and different things come into the pulpit and come into the church. it's just like any ideal. we have police officers that get speeding tickets. we have -- we have people in congress that write our tax legislation that don't pay their taxes. >> but, pastor ted, there is a difference between, you know, somebody saying you should obey the law and you get a speeding ticket and somebody preaching something which is completely anthetical to a deeply held, something -- >> i understand the point you're making. i understand the point you're making and i'm sympathetic to it, i just think it's important to understand the human condition. and this is why christ died for all of us. it's because we have people all over the country that have said i'm going to be married to you

until death to us part, good times, bad times, et cetera. they end up divorced. people have ideals that they violate themselves because of things that go on in the human condition. and so i think all of us need to be aware of that before we start name-calling too quickly. >> i'm certainly not name-calling but i think there has to be a place in our religious discourse to critique scripture. because the same bible now, the premise i cannot stand for is that homosexuality is sin or wrong because the same scriptures used to lift up that said women could not preach, that say we could not eat pork or that two twains of fabric could not be twain and slavery was upheld by that same oppressive text. at some point we have to re-evaluate what we believe. we cannot couch it in we're all sinners and all have our shortcomings. no, there's things we have to give off, we have to let go of around oppressive theology. and homosexuality and homosexual oppression, homophobia in the

church is one of those thing. >> you're promoting one biblical interpretation and respect the churches enough to promote a different one. >> that's what we do as theologians period. that's what we do as preachers of the gospel. we stand up and present a gospel that is either inclusive or exclusive. we make that choice. >> well, but that's what you're saying and that will work for your church and your congregation. but there may be a congregation down the street that wants to apply some different verses. >> if we're going to apply differences let's walk in truth, though. we have to walk in truth. >> everybody says -- >> we cannot preach a gospel that we do not live. if we know -- we shouldn't get up in pulpits and preach against it. >> pastor ted. >> -- >> everybody -- everybody thinks -- your claim, you're calling other people names, you're claiming to have the

understanding and you need -- >> i'm not claiming to have perfect understanding but what i am claiming to say is when we get up we make a choice as to whether we preach inclusion or exclusion, whether we're divisive with our theology and whether we walk in truth. >> if this is true, what do you think it says about this bishop? >> i think every person that loves the scriptures and loves god wants to be a better man than they are. and every one is growing from glory to glory to glory, every one is in a process under the word of god, and with one another and with the holy spirit and that we need to let that process continue. >> pastor troy, let me ask you the same question. >> if this is true there are internal contradictions playing out in the public eye. >> pastor ted haggard? >> i think there are internal contradictions in everyone about a variety of things. >> i agree with you but this gospel of liberation calls us all on the carpet. i'm not excluded, you weren't excluded and bishop long is not excluded either.

>> but here's what i'm saying those who independently chose to call me on the carpet were not helpful. it was those who loved me, helped me, comforted me, and this type of broad based generalized analysis of people outside your group is not what's helpful to him or to the process. >> and what i'm saying is it didn't take a scandal for me to come out and walk in truth. i called myself -- >> that's your choice. >> there are other options besides waiting until we get into scandal to be called on the carpet around walking in truth. >> but that's every human being's choice. this is america. you can't use your religion to teratyrannize others. >> interesting discussion. pastor ted haggard, troy sanders, thank you. join the live chat right now. keeping them honest, the republicans' pledge to america. and later, sanjay gupta on the men and women racing to save little kylie.

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